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By Felicia Pride

Here's an interview I conducted in 2004 with one of my powerful and dynamic sistafriends Black Artemis aka Sofia Quintero. She was representing as a writer and activist way before I met her. But since our interview, she's gone on to co-found Sister Outsider Entertainment with another changemaker Elisha Miranda. Their company has been involved with a plethora of edutainment projects including the recently released hip-hop fiction curriculum CONSCIOUS WOMEN ROCK THE PAGE. I could go on and on about Sofia's accomplishments, but for right now, take some time and check out the interview. As always, she's droppin' science.

BackList: The term hip-hop fiction is thrown around to describe a ton of different types of writing including novels that deal with street life. You have coined a term "bona fide hip-hop fiction" to describe your book and books like Kenji Jasper's Dakota Grand and A Hip-hop Story by Heru Ptah. Can you elaborate on the difference between these books and the abundance of others that are being deceivingly labeled as hip-hop fiction?

Black Artemis: If a novel's characters are Black, live in a city and make their living in or on the fringes of the underground economy, the journalistic media, the publishing industry, etc. are calling it hip-hop lit. Not once have I read or heard Erica Kennedy's Bling - which has quite a few characters as hip-hop artists working in the mainstream record industry - referred to as hip-hop lit.  But as any true hip-hop head will tell you, drugs, gangs, and the like are not hip-hop. True, they have a presence in hip-hop, but they also exist in other subcultures and industries as well.  Furthermore, hip-hop is not only so much more than gangsta rap, it's much more than music period. Hip-hop is also b-boy/b-girling and tagging as well. A Hip-hop Story really captures the changing essence of MCing as a lyricist goes from the underground to the mainstream and Dakota Grand in part explores the hip-hop industry through the eyes of a journalist who covers it.  

Explicit Content is the first to grapple with the issues facing female MCs in the industry. And I say that because the protagonist of Bling is a singer and not a rapper although I would count Bling as hip-hop fiction, too. I'm not trying to knock the authors who write novels about street life or suggesting that people not read or write about those themes. Rather I'm pulling the coattails of those who are calling that material hip-hop lit because that's not what hip-hop is. I find it rather disturbing that we are not considering the implications of equating hip-hop and street life as if they are one and the same, especially when it comes from people who consider themselves hip-hop headz.

BackList: I could tell your novel was different from the book cover with its graffiti nods, whereas some "hip-hop" novels look like played-out, old No Limit album covers. Even with that said, are you at all nervous that Explicit Content will become lost in the huge sea of hip-hop fiction?

BA: That's exactly what I thought!  I told my editor I don't want my cover to look like a No Limit album!  Give me something vibrant but not garish.  Being a debut novelist, yes, I'm quite anxious about Explicit Content finding an audience in the sea of street life books currently saturating the market, and the one thing I have in my favor is an awesome cover. I'm confident that if readers find Explicit Content, my writing will win them over because I've worked hard not only to develop a great storyline but to execute it with the best craft my ability will allow. Plus, I'm always cultivating that ability so I'm confident that with every book I'll get better and readers won't be sorry they gave me a chance and stayed with me.

There was a time when I really struggled with how to market my book. I even considered, "Let folks think it's street life fiction even if it's not so that way you can reach that audience. That material sells, and its readers are loyal to it.  Explicit Content is such a good read, readers won't care if they even remember that it's not what they thought it was when they bought it." But eventually, I decided no, I can't do that. That has no integrity. It's hypocritical to take this stand about what is and is not hip-hop fiction, and then misrepresent what I wrote for the sake of finding an audience. I just have to be true to myself as an author and activist, remain confident that there is a large readership for my work, and make the best efforts I can to find them.

BackList: You seem to be interested in the art vs. commerce debate in hip-hop culture. Now we see this equation emerge regarding the literature that is being produced. Is this debate a question of supply or demand or of something entirely different?

BA: I believe that on the surface it seems to reflect nothing more than simple supply and demand. But, at its essence it is more complex. Let me draw a parallel with the film industry.  We always have a steady stream of certain films genres aimed at our communities what I like to call "race comedies" or gangsta tales. Theoretically, that's simply because we support them at the box office, signaling for Hollywood to keep those storylines coming. Simple supply and demand, right? Then comes a movie like Drumline which success baffles everyone because, oh, who would've thought Black folks would've wanted to see something like that! So we have to ask ourselves some tough questions about the kinds of entertainment we consume. Are readers truly demanding the narrow range of choices that we currently get or are we just supporting what other people outside of our communities think we want?  And when we genuinely demand something - because I do think readers want street life fiction and gangsta flicks as much I believe they want Explicit Content or Drumline - the questions becomes, what shapes that demand? What is it about the things we support with our consumer dollars that speaks to us?  How much of our desire for certain things is a genuine reflection of who and where we are as individuals and as a community, and how much of that is the perception of who and where we are in terms of people who want our consumer dollars? 

The art vs. commerce debate in hip-hop culture is not one that can be had without raising the fact that hip-hop is something we created that has been appropriated, repackaged and sold back to us. So that begs the most important question of all: who benefits most when one kind of literature or film or music is made readily available while other types that we may enjoy just as much is not.  I almost must say that I don't think art and commerce cannot overlap although I do believe that's rare. Not all art sells and not all that sells, is art, but that doesn't mean that something that is artistically tight cannot be commercially viable.  It's what I'm trying to with my hip-hop fiction.  I can't front; I'm consciously writing commercial fiction. I want my stories to be enjoyed by all kinds of regardless of their economic status or educational level. But I'm not using that as an excuse to skimp on my craft, thinking that because some teenage girl will buy my book based on the premise alone that it's cool to be a lazy writer.

BackList: Your book deals with the shadiness of the music industry. Can you make any parallels to the publishing industry?

BA: I honestly and happily can say that I have yet to experience any situations that I would call shady.  Unlike the music or film business, this is an industry in which one's word still carries a great deal of weight. From what I see, deals are not only made verbally, they're pretty much honored. Word is bond, and I guess that's poetic irony since we are talking about a business of words. I can't say, however, I haven't been disheartened from time to time about what is published and what is rejected.  But that's not a matter of shadiness as much as a matter of politics and economics, and the truth is, that some days that hurts much more.

BackList: You consider yourself an Ivy-League homegirl, which I love by the way! Do you think that hip-hop scholarship is where it should be?

BA: Given how young it is, I appreciate where hip-hop scholarship - if by that you mean the study of hip-hop as a subculture - currently is. I would, however, like to see it go further. For example, I would like to see more scholarship like that of Gwendolyn Pough and Raquel Rivera who document and analyze the role of Black women and Latinos in hip-hop respectively.  I'd like to see more work on the evolution of hip-hop in countries outside the United States where my fellow hip-hop activists who work on an international level tell me that hip-hop is used to promote social justice.  And I'd like to see this scholarship become more accessible.  I'm glad hip-hop has gone to the university, but unlike everything else that the academy produces that might be of use to everyday people, don't lock it up in ivy tower!

BackList: Explicit Content features two, strong female protagonists. Do you find that hip-hop culture forgets about the presence of females and is your book written as a reminder?

BA: Hip-hop hasn't forgotten about women at all, but like most other subculture or industries in our society, it attempts to confine us to oppressive roles.  Explicit Content sheds light on this tendency and takes it to one, possible fictional yet realistic conclusion. Women are quite visible in hip-hop but in very problematic ways.  It remains difficult for a woman to succeed in hip-hop - be it in the underground scene or in the mainstream industry - on her own terms and by that I mean terms that are not defined by the financial or sexual desires of men.  For examples, it's hard to determine whether someone like Li'l Kim is projecting the kind of image she truly wants and it just so happens that enough men like it for her to be successful or if she is doing what she believes most men want her to do and has convinced herself that this is truly who she is anyway. If you take male desire out of the equation, would Li'l Kim be the same artist she is? If the answer is yes, then she has succeeded on her own terms. If the answer is no, then she has not, she's only capitulated to terms set by men who can facilitate or impede her success. But I did write Explicit Content because I do believe that bona fide hip-hop fiction, if it does not evolve into a lasting literary genre just as in music, will at least emerge as a literary movement. That said, I didn't want to look back and see that women were not heard from until decades after the movement began.  

BackList: You wrote the lyrics that appear in the book. How important do you think lyrics are in creating good hip-hop music? With that said, how important is a great story for a successful book?

BA: Well, I'm a woman of words so it's hard for an MC to impress me without good lyrics! That said, my standards for most things are much higher than the average hip-hop head.  Still I don't think that most hip-hop aficionados - people who follow hip-hop beyond what they hear on commercial radio or read in glossy magazines, who really know their stuff - would disagree with me that without lyrical skill you don't have much.  That may not be true to the average music fan whose taste is limited to whatever happens to be popular and doesn't really mind the lyrics to a song because they've been seduced by the beat. Not that I haven't been caught out there myself!  I remember when Lord Tariq and Peter Gunz dropped "Déjà vu (Uptown Baby)" I was so proud to have more Bronx MCs on the set and the music was so catchy. It's because of that I started really checking for the lyrics because I naturally wanted to rhyme along. Then I heard that line about "know how to beat her" and I got turned off mad quick. It spoiled the entire song for me, and now I can't listen to it. I know folks think that might be extreme, but I'm a media maker and activist and I know that it's never "just a song" or just a book or just a movie, and I won't apologize for being the kind of person that can live quite happily without some piece of popular culture. I love that stuff as much as the next person, but I don't HAVE to buy anything, least of all spending money on something that contradicts my values.  Don't call me a player hater because I'm just trying to walk my talk.  

BackList: Jadakiss' "Why" is being hailed as a breath of fresh air because the lyrics are thought-provoking in a sea of nothingness. I truly believe you don't have to be a Talib Kweli or Common to say something "conscious". In hip-hop songs and hip-hop literature, how can we capture reality-based storytelling with a message?

BA: We certainly can. The question is whether authors want to.  My goal as a hip-hop novelist is to meet readers where they are and try to take them someplace better.  Make them question what they have taken for granted as real and unchangeable.  Hip-hop is so big on keepin' it real, but what if what's real is something that desperately needs to change?  How about redefining "real" so that it's something more affirming?  Explicit Content and my upcoming novel, Picture Me Rollin are not fairy tales. They're edgy stories. There's sex, violence, prejudice, vulgarity, etc, but none of it exists for its own sake, in unjustifiable extremes and without some context. That's exactly how they mirror current reality. But with these stories I also want to ask the question, "Does it have to be this way?" It's certainly a challenge to depict enough of the negativity to evoke a sense of realism yet not wallow in it to the point where I'm perpetuating the same thing I hope to critique.  Plus, reality is not all negativity. There's much to celebrate in hip-hop that does not require hurting others so why is "keepin' it real" always about something that involves destroying self or others?    

BackList: What can we learn from hip-hop?

BA: Volumes have been written answering this question, and I've already said a lot in your previous questions!  What I will say is this.  Remember, folks, hip-hop was created by young people who  had nothing.  Inherit in hip-hop is a creative and entrepreneurial spirit.  What is not inherit in hip-hop is pathology, destruction or exploitation. If anything, low-income youth of color created hip-hop in an effort to resist those very things. So now that hip-hop has gone from culture to commodity, I hope people will revisit hip-hop's history as a way of reclaiming its power for change and shaping its future for our individual and collective advancement.

BackList: What do you want people to walk away from after reading Explicit Content?

BA: Wow, there are so many things I want people to think about after reading my book, and what will resonate most will depend on the reader's own background. Depending on one's age, race, sex, educational level, socioeconomic status, different things will stay with a person. In fact, I really do hope that people will read it more than once and discuss it with others who have read it. Don't be fooled by the vernacular language and gritty plot twists - there's a lot brewing under the surface of this book. It may be commercial fiction, but it's an excellent book club choice with a great deal of substance for discussion. I even wrote a readers guide for it in the back of the book.  If anything, I hope folks will write me and share what they came away with after reading it because I have a lot of intentions for the book, but the ultimate judge of who and how it touched people will be the readers themselves.